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Nugent’s GOP ties are causing second thoughts - The Galveston County Daily News : Letters To Editor

August 29, 2014

Nugent’s GOP ties are causing second thoughts

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  • bvresident posted at 8:45 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    bvresident Posts: 1060

    My God, another democrat threatening to vote as a democrat because he believes in freedom of speech except when it comes from the right. Anybody ever read an article by a democrat threatening to vote Republican because of the IRS targeting, or the murders in Benghazi while Obama, Jarrett, and Clinton lied to the public, or the massive unauthorized spying on law-abiding U.S citizens by the NSA, or the hundreds of deaths caused by the illegal gun-running by the Obama administration under Eric Holder? Of course not. They only get upset when same sex marriage is considered an affront to the sanctity of marriage between a man and woman, or when cable news and the Limbaughs speak the truth about the Messiah, or when we won't bow down to the dictators of the world.

     
  • kevjlang posted at 5:29 pm on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    kevjlang Posts: 2816

    That's not what I wrote. When making comparisons, it's best to eliminate as many variables as possible. You're trying to make a point that HFH uses substandard labor and that's why their houses have more problems. If you take two houses that are the same except for the labor pool, then you have a better comparison than if you compare houses built by different contractors, or using different structural materials, foundations, etc.

    Sure, your comparison exposes what appears to be a statistical anomaly. It deserves to be examined critically. Not just chalked up to one possible difference and labeling that as the cause. You may be right, but you may be echoing people barking up convenient, but wrong, trees.

    If there is a problem, I'm sure that HFH wants to know about it, learn from it, and implement processes for fixing the past problems and preventing them in the future.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 10:56 am on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    I never said he wasn't a good man. I always wrote "his heart was in the right place." But offhand after leaving office:
    Former Presidents Bush and Clinton formed the Haiti fund to rebuild that country following an earthquake in 2010
    William Howard Taft was elected chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court in 1921,
    John Tyler, the 10th President, retired after he left office, but then returned to public life on the eve of the Civil War, chairing a committee to try and negotiate a peaceful compromise.
    John Quincy Adams served in the United States House of Representatives after he left office.
    Grover Cleveland practiced law in New York City between terms as president.
    It's a matter of perspective if these actions help mankind or not.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 9:37 am on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    “There are reports of mildew and cracking walls. Rats and roaches live in some of the homes.”
    “Judy Hall, the local development director of Habitat is dealing with about 30 complaints. She wanted it to be known though that all skilled work is carried out by professionals.
    I have lived in Florida. If you do not keep up with your home the environment will do a job on it. Roaches (rats) are commonplace in the state. To keep them away one has to be diligent. yes, if their homes were built on an area that is toxic that is a crime. but in eight years if a home is not maintained in warm climates then it will start to fall apart. It's just common sense. As one of the residents Diennal Fields, 51, says; “
    It’s simple stuff: if there is mildew, don’t get a lawyer, get a bottle of bleach.” This is from digital journal Jan 4, 2009, the source you linked.
    Are you saying that Habitat for Humanity is responsible for these homes after they turn them over to the new owners? President Carters involvement with Habitat for Humanity has nothing to do with the job he did as President.

    Carlosrponce: please list the Presidents that have done more for man kind after leaving office than President Carter ?

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 8:13 am on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Tell that to the people living in squalor once known as "Jimmy Carter Built" Homes. http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/264524
    But his heart was in the right place. But Jimmy is smiling today. Thanks to BO he is no longer considered the worst President we've ever had.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 8:01 am on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    Thank You for the kind words.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 7:45 am on Mon, Mar 3, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Well carlosrponce:
    I hope the series of "fact checking" from Bigjim and kev set you straight in regard to Jimmy Carter and his involvement in HFH.

    With the way building inspectors oversee housing construction, along with the high public profile that HFH has had the last few decades, that organization surely could not have gone "under the radar" and produce substandard housing. Not any more than other organizations, but certainly much less. In fact, other less-known groups even today very more likely slip by the inspectors. You can't say there weren't inspectors dogging the HFH, looking for discrepencies so that one of these whistleblowers could gain some 15 minutes of fame.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 5:29 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    I never said Jimmy was at fault. I always wrote that his heart was in the right place. I was initially responding to sverige who insists that Bush and Reagan working on the ranch were mere "photo ops". Bush and Reagan were "team building" getting to know their staff members better by doing physical labor with them. Carter was "house building". Which was more productive was my point.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 4:53 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    Reply to carlosrponce posted at 2:31 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    Which one applies?
    (A)“The pre-construction engineering is usually "pro bono)
    . You get what you pay for”
    "pro bono"(uses the specific skills of professionals to provide services to those who are unable to afford them)
    Or
    (B)“And there is not much to engineering. My dad did the "engineering" on the homes he built and he just had a 10th grade education from Central High School of Texas City”
    If you chose (A) it must be important, if (B) is your choice then it must not matter. If it not important then why do we do inspection and require engineers approval .
    If a person does something pro bono they should be applauded and not made to look like if they do it for free, it must not be any good. Most people that give time are very good people with different skills. The engineers that donated their time had degrees that said they are engineers .
    If engineering degrees do not count , then do other degrees count?
    “While the Habitat workers did not actually pour the slab, they did scrape the base, set the forms, spread the sand, set the rebar, set up the "in the concrete plumbing" and smooth the concrete. It varied from job site to job site“.
    “On all the housing projects I’ve been on, they didn’t just let you loose, they paired you up with someone that had the skills needed for the task” The workers just supplied labor, craftsman would have O.K. projects. The people that only supplyed labor had nothing to do with cracking and other problems.
    “If the concrete is cracking or the foundations are shifting, the blame either goes to the foundation contractors, or perhaps more likely on the maintenance (or lack thereof)”
    “Because Jimmy Carter was involved they bypassed the red tape and inspections
    after construction finishes”
    Were can I find this info? This would mean that inspector were risk loosing jobs and maybe going to jail.
    .“The percentage of "Carter Built " homes falling apart is rather high“. Can you give me numbers you can back up!
    How does all this add up to President Carter was at fault?

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 3:26 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Then by your standards there can be no comparison. Habitat for Humanity had no competitors. The houses built are still sub-standard. But Jimmy meant well, His heart was in the right place, and that's all DemProgLibs care about, he cares, he tried.

     
  • kevjlang posted at 3:09 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    kevjlang Posts: 2816

    Comparing to similar homes isn't apples-to-apples. Compare them to other homes using the same prime contractor and engineer. Sure, there is value in comparing Perry homes with KB Homes, but if you want to test the cost-cutting skills, look at a Perry home built for a retail customer versus one that Perry participated in on a Habitat build. That's where you can see the real differences due to lesser skilled labor and perhaps excessive cost-cutting on the structural design.

    Question all data and sources. Especially, question the data spinners. As they say, there are two kinds of lies. Statistics can be used to tell whatever lies suit the person using them.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 2:31 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    They compare the houses to similar houses in the same neighborhoods. And there is not much to engineering. My dad did the "engineering" on the homes he built and he just had a 10th grade education from Central High School of Texas City. He "engineered" the construction of the house I grew up in (Texas City) in 1951. and the current house I live in (1968). No problems! Note he built his homes in pre-permit inspection days.

     
  • kevjlang posted at 12:58 pm on Sun, Mar 2, 2014.

    kevjlang Posts: 2816

    The early homes are more than 30 years old. There aren't many 30 year-old home that don't have something wrong. For middle-income and higher, the residents can probably keep on top of the maintenance issues that home ownership requires. For lower income, I can see a lot of "if it ain't broke" issues being allowed to progress. Structural issues due to shifting soils generally don't go away on their own, but get worse.

    My guess is that code standards have changed over the years, making the Habitat home appear more deficient, and maintenance issues that undermined the design margins.

    I would not question "pro bono" engineering if the engineering was done by engineers with integrity. If the engineers did not have integrity, then I'd look long and hard at other homes designed by those engineers during that time frame.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 10:20 pm on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    The pre-construction engineering is usually "pro bono". You get what you pay for. While the Habitat workers did not actually pour the slab, they did scrape the base, set the forms, spread the sand, set the rebar, set up the "in the concrete plumbing" and smooth the concrete. It varied from job site to job site. Remember the original goal was not only to provide affordable housing but to provide the unskilled with job skills.Since most of the earlier homes were shoddy, they NOW do as you describe and help "finish" a house starting with raising the walls.

     
  • kevjlang posted at 9:47 pm on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    kevjlang Posts: 2816

    Habitat for Humanity workers do not engineer or pour the slabs. Habitat for Humanity volunteers generally don't build much of the structural elements. They may help with exterior or load-bearing walls, but the roof trusses are generally built off-site.

    If the concrete is cracking or the foundations are shifting, the blame either goes to the foundation contractors, or perhaps more likely on the maintenance (or lack thereof) after construction finishes.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 4:04 pm on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Because Jimmy Carter was involved they bypassed the red tape and inspections. But its okay, his "heart" was in the right place.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 3:34 pm on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    "Foundations are cracking, walls have growing fissures, and residents complain of mysterious rashes"
    Are you saying President Carter is responsible for these problems?
    Was he the engineer on the jobs?
    Was he the inspector on the jobs?
    Was he the concrete supplier?
    Was he in charge of concrete pours?
    Did he sign off on the jobs.
    Was he in charge of any of the projects.
    Was he in charge of testing the soil?
    The problems you site all were more then likely from bad slabs or ground shifting , moving.
    Also they have lead men that know what they are doing, guiding
    the projects.
    +

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 2:02 pm on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    I helped my dad build the house I live in, my brothers house, one in Texas City and one in Galveston and one in Dickinson. I also helped my dad repair and remodel at least a dozen homes in Texas City, Santa Fe and Galveston. We even constructed an apartment building in Galveston and a Hall on 61st Street. The percentage of "Carter Built " homes falling apart is rather high. Check the numbers. He could swing a hammer but did he hit the nail on the head? Its okay, his "heart" was in the right place.
    As for supervised construction, a number of local high schools had to discontinue Building Trades as a course. The houses were so poorly built, the districts had to hire a "real" construction firm to do demo work and build them right. The Building Trades teachers were experienced home builders but they could only keep their eye on so much.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 12:03 pm on Sat, Mar 1, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    carlosrponce
    How many houses have You built? I have built the one I’m living in and helped on many more. The one’s that I’ve help on I had no way of knowing about how it was engineered, I was just manual labor.
    I could not find the references you quoted but I’m sure it was true account of what the paper said. I found one in Florida that was built on a trash heap that was having problems from trash shifting.
    Where was the project, in London? What was the soil condition?
    Here we have soil that unless you pour pilings (bells)you will more than likely result in a flexed(some call it cracked) slab down the road. This is why we have so many slab repair company’s. Fissures result from the same condition and other reasons . Mold can be the result of the slab shifting, plumbing problems or leaks. We have mold problems in this area.
    “Residents complain of mysterious rashes” how is this linked to Jimmy’s construction skills.
    “houses he and other unskilled laborers built are falling apart“ shifting slabs will cause this . I doubt that all were unskilled Have you ever volunteered
    on building houses, I have.
    One house I helped on was in La Marque. The owners could not do the repairs required. They had a hole in floor that was letting rats in. The day we did repairs , my Scout Troop was there with about 40 people. Twenty boys and the rest adults from our troop.Number of volunteeres was about 200 for the project.. What we did was clean up outside. Inside were carpenters that had volunteered to help. We had professional painters painting, plumber plumbing and so on . Mattress Mac donated new furniture.
    On all the housing projects I’ve been on, they didn’t just let you loose, they paired you up with someone that had the skills needed for the task.
    Unless President Carter was in charge of the project it’s a stretch to make him reasonable for a creaked slab and other problems.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 10:35 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Jimmy meant well but the houses he and other unskilled laborers built are falling apart. " Foundations are cracking, walls have growing fissures, and residents complain of mysterious rashes.'The intentions are good,' one resident tells The Times of London. '"But when the politicians and the big shot stars have left, we're stuck with the consequences.'
    But his heart was in the right place.[smile]

     
  • sverige1 posted at 8:38 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Response to kevjlang posted at 3:25 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014,
    Response to carlosrponce posted at 3:59 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014:

    I wonder who made a ghastly Comment Removed, and I wonder what it said.. LOL
    Anyhow, Bush #2's more-than-one occasional little references regarding wanting to be a "dictator" washed away any little respect I could've had for him back then. If you think I'm being picky pointing out his actions, then so be it. I do think a modicum of boundary setting would have put little Bush on better footing throughout his tenure.

    As for "labor" that these Presidents do while they're vacationing: We all know they are photo op sessions, with the aim to look like regular folk. Reagan allegedly chopped all that wood. But, in reality, with his mind already "going", I doubt if Nancy really wanted him to go at that for more than one/two/or three photogenic-making moments. There's hundreds of house/ranch staff to do such work, even if they enjoyed using the wood for an in-home fire, or to put on the grill. I concur regarding the need for Presidents to "get away". That's true for any person who has a job. You have to "work hard" and "play hard". Now, did Reagan or Bush 2 work hard? Hardly. But, it is said that one of Carter's downfalls was his extreme attention to detail. In the end it didn't do much for him. But, it's interesting to know that for years he's done Habitat for Humanity - and that's much more than chopping wood for a minute or two in front of the cameras.

     
  • kevjlang posted at 4:32 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    kevjlang Posts: 2816

    Most of the "work" he would do was perhaps a little more sweat-inducing than Obama's golf. Like Obama's guests, Bush's guests were mostly people he already knew and got along with. Sure, when the cameras roll on our Presidents while they're at their retreats, we get to see a bit less buttoned-down version of them. But, to liken it to be somehow more "real" than their life in DC is probably exaggerating things a bit.

    I don't begrudge the presidents one bit for getting out of the office from time to time. It would be nice if we lived in a day and time when they could truly get out of the White House and experience the country like real people do, but I guess for now, they'll lose a bit of sterility within their bubble, and the scenery will change, but they're stuck in the bubble.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 3:59 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    When George W. went to Crawford he would "work" the ranch with staff and "guests". You learn a lot about a person when doing actual manual labor along side them.

     
  • kevjlang posted at 3:25 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    kevjlang Posts: 2816

    sverige1, I think you're nit-picking with the "Western White House". Neither Bush nor Obama have come anywhere close to being dictators.

    The bad intelligence about Saddam's WMDs was born probably late in the Reagan administration, or during GHW Bush's tenure. It fed on itself through the Clinton and GW Bush years. I would not be surprised if Saddam at one time had WMDs, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he wished he did have some. He very well may have used what he had, or packed them off to Syria or some other ally for safe keeping. For all we know, Saddam may have had that information leaked to the international community as an embarassment tactic.

    carlosrponce, for the most part, when Bush went to Crawford, he was still pretty much just as disconnected from reality as he was in DC. Being connected with real people is something that is frowned on these days for our presidents. Remember how much the Secret Service hated it when Clinton would sneak out to go jogging? That was far closer to reality than what Bush was doing in Crawford. He was still in a bubble.

    Even congressmen are wary of connecting with reality. Look at what being in "touch with Americans" did for Gabby Giffords? These days, you sweep everyone out, set out an armed perimeter, and bring in a few hand-selected and heavily screened people in, and try to make it look like you're "in touch".

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 2:53 pm on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Left-leaning professor of constitutional law at George Washington University Jonathan Turley heavily criticized President Bush but he testified on Capitol Hill that President Obama "has, in fact, exceeded his authority in a way that is creating a destabilizing influence" far beyond anything Bush did. "I believe we are now at a constitutional tipping point in our system. It's a dangerous point for our system to be in." So who's the dictator?
    As for Iraq's "stockpile of weapons" he repeated what American Intelligence, Israeli Intelligence, President Bill Clinton and Vice-President Al Gore were saying. You can access past issues of the GDN with your Rosenberg Library Card if you do not remember what happened.
    As far as "a laughing stock to the world view" this can be found in leftist world newspapers but the world leaders respected the United States and President Bush. With revelations that the current administration has spied on “dozens” of foreign presidents and prime ministers, this country is no longer respected but distrusted.
    Why did GW Bush go to Crawford? At least you admit that he was working on the ranch and not vacationing as other left leaning pundits claim. Why go to Crawford -to get away from the inner beltway mentality. Something happens to politicians when they move to Washington DC. They lose touch with real Americans. Those inside the beltway consider the Midwest "flyover country" - nothing to concern yourself with.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 9:53 am on Fri, Feb 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Response to carlosrponce posted at 3:49 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014:

    Yes, Bush #2's podium reading "The Western White House" was very bothersome, and illustrated his dictatorship leanings and abuses of power. Many dictators stepped up their reigns of terror through subtle means, like these. They created new governmental "bases" in unauthorized locations. They balkanized their leadership, as opposed to leading for the whole nation.

    Bush #2 was a laughing stock to the world view. He wasn't even a real Texan (daddy came from Connecticut), yet he acted as though he needed to rule from Crawford - as if the mindset of a drugstored cowboy-hatted character was to be somehow desired. Carter did not construct a "Plains Georgia White House". Reagan did not construct a "Hollywood White House". You do realize that Bush #2's biggest problem was the implied danger that he carried throughout his presidencies. The world viewed our country in a much more negative light, and I blame him. His most unforgivable abuse was the false fear he created regarding Iraq's "stockpile of weapons", and his actions furthering it. Bush was considered a dictoator, and even stated he preferred to be one. And he said that at least on 3 occasions.

    http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/2002/10/29_Dictator.html

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 4:07 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Island Runner, the hatred in your diatribe speaks volumes for your party. May God Bless you! You need it!

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 3:49 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Gee, if the podium reads "Western White House" does this really bother you? I feel sorry for you if it does. The rest of the world doesn't care.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 12:11 pm on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    "Hail Creation"?
    "Hail to our Nation"?
    "Play Station"?

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 11:51 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 340

    Rep. will not admit to anything .they have done is wrong.

    Please, everybody take a deep breath and relax. This just a fornum.

    [beam]

     
  • sverige1 posted at 10:25 am on Thu, Feb 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Of course I don't remember LBJ's 60s, good lord, I'm not from the Austin Powers era, LOL. Now, I beg to differ, however, if your regional White House assertions.

    While it was implied, none of the other Presidents had a specific podium designed to emulate the true White House podium - except Bush #2. Sure, in History books I remember reading about JFK's Hyannis Port summer resort, but he didn't have a podium constructed as such. The other Presidents clearly delineated the "true" White House from the fake White Houses.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 10:53 pm on Wed, Feb 26, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    sverige, the term "Western White House" is a traditional name used by Presidents Lyndon Baines Johnson (LBJ Ranch), Richard M. Nixon (La Casa Pacifica), Ronald Reagan (Rancho del Cielo) and George W. Bush (Crawford Ranch). It is TRADITION. No one found it regional, territorial or alienating.
    All other Presidents have had a "Summer White House" or a Winter White House" or both. Obama's Summer White House is the Blue Heron Farm in Martha's Vineyard. His Winter White House is the Plantation Estate in Kailua, Honolulu County, Hawaii. I guess you would not remember LBJ's Western White House. It was the 60s. It was also called the "Texas White House". Do a web search if you do not believe me.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 7:13 am on Wed, Feb 26, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Loosely related to the "mission accomplished" event, I often had observations of Bush #2's "license" he used in regard to the physical/geographical boundries a President ought to take in regard to government.

    Remember when he was vacationing in Crawford, Bush would hold a news conference? On his podium in Crawford it said, "The Western White House". There were folks back then that considered that behavior somewhat regional, territorial, if not alienating. If you think it through, by Bush proclaiming Crawford, TX as a 2nd White House, he was alienating non-Texans. And, that Washington DC Bush was not attending to his oath-driven executive orders. He very well may have diminished the Constitutional importance that specifies one main federal governmental base (Washington). History tells us that, indeed, NYC at one time was our governmental base. The point is that Bush diluted the concept.

    I personally don't think he really meant it to go that far, but how many times do we see Middle Eastern dictators hole themselves up in a remote desert place and "govern" from a second-hand environment in a cave?

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 6:38 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    bkewl1964, Maybe in his song "Jailbait" Ted Nugent was writing about Roman Polanski who drugged a 13 year-old girl in Jack Nicholson's house and then raped her. Despite this, the Hollywood left continues to defend Polanski. More than 100 people in the film industry, including Woody Allen and Martin Scorsese, signed a petition calling for Polanski's release. Whoopi Goldberg has defended Roman Polanski, saying he did not commit "rape-rape". The rape occurred in 1977. Check out Polanski's interview with Martin Amis in 1979. It sounds similar in tone to "Jailbait". Ted Nugent's song was released in 1981. Coincidence?

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 5:38 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Did Bush disavow "Mission Accomplished" NO. Did he disavow the link "Mission Accomplished" to the war? YES.
    When it was brought up at a news conference, Bush said, "The `Mission Accomplished' sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished."
    "I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff — they weren't that ingenious, by the way."
    After the news conference, a White House spokeswoman said the Lincoln's crew asked the White House to have the sign made. The White House asked a private vendor to produce the sign, and the crew put it up, said the spokeswoman. She said she did not know who paid for the sign.
    Later, a Pentagon spokesman called The Associated Press to reiterate that the banner was the crew's idea.
    "It truly did signify a mission accomplished for the crew," Navy Cmdr. Conrad Chun said, adding the president's visit marked the end of the ship's 10-month international deployment.
    The president's appearance on the Abraham Lincoln, which was returning home after service in the Persian Gulf, included his dramatic and much-publicized landing on the ship's deck.
    Bush's disavowal Tuesday brought new criticism from Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts and retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark who are both seeking the Democratic nomination to run against the president.
    Source: militaryphotos.net
    And this, my friend, is TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    And it is much ado over a simple banner erected by the brave crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln!

     
  • Bigjim posted at 5:10 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    Reply to
    carlosrponce posted at 4:35 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.
    “Much ado over a simple banner.” Not once did I question why the banner was there. “Did Bush disavow "Mission accomplished" yes he did, but it did not make any difference?”. The question I was asking did it matter that the President disavow this. To me everyone had already had their minds made up , so it didn’t change anyone’s perception of what the banner represented .
    It all come down to what You think is true.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 4:42 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    The author of the letter is tying Greg Abbott to Ted Nugent's comments. I merely posed the question "Do we then assign Wendy to the "Hail Satan" political niche?" using John's logic. I really think neither is applicable.
    A good friend of mine, a deacon's wife , was present in Austin at the time at the capital. She assures me they were chanting "Hail Satan!"

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 4:35 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    PS. The banner was TRUE. The MISSION of the USS Abraham Lincoln, was ACCOMPLISHED. It never referred to the entire war in Iraq which one would construe if they listened to President Bush's speech. "We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous.Our mission continues...The War on Terror continues."

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 4:23 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Bigjim, I had some former students aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln. The crew was responsible for the banner. They were honored when President Bush acknowledged their deployment. They were dismayed when the Leftist took this occasion and perverted it just to poke fun and criticize the President. President Bush in his usual manner accepted any criticism as their Commander in Chief, taking full responsibility so they could move on to more important things. Much ado over a simple banner. Please!

     
  • sverige1 posted at 4:03 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Response to bkewl1964 posted at 12:26 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014, and
    Response to carlosrponce posted at 3:47 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014:

    Well, I don't think popular music (in general, regardless of genre) is high up there on the intellectual scale.

    Those who ascribe to classical perhaps feel they have the toehold on such things. As it is, much of the "music" that 's out there should be treated as a diversion from life's toils and troubles. The problem is when folks take it to heart and believe that the lyrics should represent how one should live. This, I believe would apply to bkewl1964's reference, as well as rap. I'll even throw in country music's often lauded attempts to romanticize drinking, cheating. All should be heard in fun with a grain of salt.

    Bottom line: I would prefer my child to do his/her homework than to endlessly listen to Nugent or rap.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 3:47 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Unfortunately that is mild compared to the lyrics the kids listen to now. Those lyrics done by "gangsta' rappers" who support the current President and who have visited the White House since Obama came to office.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 12:28 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    I know what Bush said and the reason they said it was there. Does everyone buy the stated meaning of banner. It all depends on what you think is truth.
    “Talk about the low information voter!” If you were talking about me I didn’t say if I believed it or not. Like I said “The banner was hanging but did it make it true?” Please don’t put words into my typing.
    I gave some examples of past times were what people saw or heard may or may not have been true. It all come down to what You think is true.

     
  • bkewl1964 posted at 12:26 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    bkewl1964 Posts: 7

    When Ted Nugent was 32 years old, he released the song "Jailbait." Here's a taste of the lyrics (written by him):

    Well, I don't care if you're just 13

    You look too good to be true

    I just know that you're probably clean...

    Jailbait you look fine, fine, fine...

    It's quite alright, I asked your mama

    Wait a minute, officer

    Don't put those handcuffs on me

    Put them on her, and I'll share her with you

    The albums' next track is titled "I Am a Predator."

     
  • sverige1 posted at 12:08 pm on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Maybe Wendy heard the rallygoers say, "Hail to the Statesmen!" Or "Hail Cady Staton!" Or, "There's hail in College Station!" I doubt if a keynoted speaker at an event can quell every loud cheer and comment from crowdgoers.

    To tie Wendy Davis to Satan is pretty certifiable. I worry about you sometimes, ponce.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 11:59 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Talk about the low information voter! The "Mission Accomplished" Banner was put up by the men and women of the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln to signify the end of the longest carrier deployment since the Viet Nam War. Bush acknowledged the contributions of the navy personnel. It did not refer to the end of the war in Iraq. He did say that major operations in Iraq had concluded but that "We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We are bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous.Our mission continues...The War on Terror continues." His speech still survives on the internet.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 11:24 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    "The person or persons heard saying ‘Hail Satan’ were they a Republican or Democrat, who knows unless you know who they are." . (I did not say one person or group.)
    I was at a political rally in Beaumont 1972 when someone shouted something. It was latter proved that the person was not part of rally, but was their just to stir it up.
    Did Bush disavow "Mission accomplished" yes he did but it did not make any difference?.. The banner was hanging but did it make it true?
    If Wendy Davis' had disavowed what happen would it make any difference ?People would not have changed their minds. One campaign manger told me he could get anyone elected if they didn’t say anything unless he tell them to. Remember Clayton Williams who said "If it's inevitable, just relax and enjoy it"
    “Did the chanters ever apologize for their public outcry of "Hail Satan" No.”
    If the chanter or chanters do not want to be know they will not come out. Just like I said before, who knows who or whom they are .

     
  • TrebleClef posted at 11:00 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    TrebleClef Posts: 302

    The fact that IHOG states that more (Texas) voters side with Nugent is pathetic and sad commentary indeed.

     
  • IHOG posted at 10:40 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    Severige

    Good judgement dictates we fear the politics of BHO and his trolls.
    Davis will get the HUD slum and keepers vote BHO got in Texas.
    A little less now because Texas reduced the need for welfare by increasing employment.
    Fear is their motivation to vote liberal. Told by keepers they'll be cast out on the street if conservatives win. Too ignorent to understand "eliminating the need for welfare" doesn't cast them out. It frees them from fear of loosing what they no longer need.

     
  • IHOG posted at 10:09 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    John

    Fortunately more voters wil agree with Nugent, Perry and Abbot than with you.
    You used your first Amendment right to cast names at better people than you.
    Time now for you to slink away.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 9:01 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Response to carlosrponce posted at 6:47 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014:

    In all fairness to folks who are trying to get a following (politicians, pop singers, businesspersons) - they're out to get voters and consumers and would not make statements to disavow a group who they feel could generate votes.

    There are extremely superstitious folks who believe Satan exists. Some are cult followers, and they can be of any political affiliation. Not all Satanists are democrat, republican. Some are "independent". It would not be in Davis' best interest to disavow one voice, crying for Satin in a crowd. There's "crazies" in all sectors.

    After all, wouldn't someone like, let's say, Tammy Faye Bakker show compassion and love for a Satanist, or a homosexual, or of a criminal?

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 9:00 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    From the video it sounds like a whole lot more than "Only One Person". Sorry Bigjim, it is DEFINITELY more than "one person".

    http://www.lifenews.com/2013/07/03/abortion-activists-yell-hail-satan-as-texas-pro-lifers-sing-amazing-grace/

    They were there supporting Wendy Davis' filbuster of legislation designed not to stop abortion but limit it.
    Whether it was one or a thousand, did Wendy ever disavow their chants of "Hail Satan"? No. Did the chanters ever apologize for their public outcry of "Hail Satan" No.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 8:51 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3262

    Response to Bigjim posted at 8:32 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014:

    Well, Bigjim, isn't that the modus aparandi that the republicans have been doing for quite awhile? I recall when daddy Bush ran, he ran the fear tactic ad that his opposition (Dukakis) was partly responsible for pre-releasing that Willie Horton criminal.

    Today, on our own local TV we see politicians saying we're overrun by illegals, big Obama government is creeping more into our lives (depriving us from the advantages of private insurance coverage), and so on. It's fear tactics, not the dissemination of high-thinking knowledge/issues that drives these candidates. I am not surprised in the least that someone latched onto the Wendy Davis/Satan connection.

     
  • Bigjim posted at 8:32 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    Bigjim Posts: 414

    “Only one person was heard saying “Hail Satan” (which was said once) at that event, therefore, linking Wendy Davis or the Obama administration to the sole person responsible is disingenuous. Dropping Wendy Davis and Satan in the same sentence is transparent. And one person saying “Hail Satan’ in comparison to a hoard of college kids hunting down undocumented workers/students, is pathetic“.
    Watch courtesy of KVUE:
    “Gregg Abbott is really reaching trying to link Wendy Davis to Satan. GOP must be getting desperate if this is what they are resorting to. Glad the games are cancelled, sad the republicans are using it as a chance to lie about those they are running against. I hope a future in Texas with a democrat controlled government can bring about some sanity.”
    The person or persons heard saying ‘Hail Satan’ were they a Republican or Democrat, who knows unless you know who they are. Trying to link a candidate to what someone else does is reaching, unless they endorse it. Whether
    its someone who yells something in a crowd setting or group that puts together a game at UT.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 6:47 am on Tue, Feb 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2034

    Let's see. The leader in the gubernatorial race in the Republican Primary is Greg Abbott.. His apparent Democratic opponent is Wendy Davis. In her pro-abortion filibuster, her supporters were chanting "Hail Satan". Wendy never disavowed this group of supporters. On the other hand Ted Nugent apologized for his remarks about President Obama. John you then assign Ted to the “Sieg Heil” political niche. Do we then assign Wendy to the "Hail Satan" political niche? John, I think you'd better sit this one out. In a recent poll Greg was beating Wendy by 11 points. Seems that Ted's comments don't mean much. Remember John, Satan was Herr Alois Schicklgruber's boss.