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Island group sues to block mixed-income developments - The Galveston County Daily News : Local News

November 29, 2014

Island group sues to block mixed-income developments

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42 comments:

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  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:54 pm on Sat, Dec 7, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    N. P. [sad][sad][sad][sad][sad][sad][sad] Your racism is showing.

     
  • npappous posted at 7:56 pm on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    npappous Posts: 350

    As I said - they laid the battlefield. Now they complain when they are engaged on their own terms.

     
  • npappous posted at 7:54 pm on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    npappous Posts: 350

    Hank - any more disengenuous than anAuston not-for-profit determining what is best for GHA residents ?

     
  • Hank Thierry posted at 3:27 pm on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    Hank Thierry Posts: 105

    If compliance with the Fair Housing Act is the crux of this lawsuit, then so be it. But to purport an unemployed citizen living in Texas City as the victimized face of Galveston's public housing seems a bit disingenuous.

     
  • gecroix posted at 3:02 pm on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    gecroix Posts: 3157

    Perhaps in some small part that lack of concern may be due to the current practice of enforcing only the laws that fit a particular ideological bent or desired goal.
    It's regularly demonstrated these days that circumvention is likely to be as prevalent as compliance.
    Depends on who's making the call(s)...

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 2:28 pm on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1728

    Probably because we're not legal experts. It's hard for me to get past the idea of blight and crime returning to the Island. My motivation has little to do with what's good for the PH residents -- I'd rather it never be built.

    But I guess you're right, AFFH has to be the basis for the suit...

     
  • npappous posted at 2:20 pm on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    npappous Posts: 350

    Interesting that so few posters concern themselves with the only relevant point - are GHA's plans compliant with the Fair Housing Act? Two expert studies say "no".

     
  • Matt Coulson posted at 8:39 am on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    Matt Coulson Posts: 129

    Anyone who has moved to Galveston in the last thirty years chose a community that is diverse and rich in people of all colors living together. We have chosen to raise our children in a real town with real people. This is not The Woodlands or king wood or any of the other enclaves of people who have decided to to take their money and community participation and keep it in a place specifically designed to be less diverse. So let's please try to understand each other's point of view without malice. Their is a disagreement about how to provide public housing, and who it should be for. Some seem to feel housing should be availibe to those who can't afford it so that they can live like those that make a little bit more. Why we ask. Because we need a good supply of labor for service Bussiness and hospital service staff some say. To me that sounds like a fancy version of some of south Texas ranch houses built to hold poor workers or maybe even a plantation housing situation. Is this what America has to offer its poor? Malcolm X once asked his people to question why their government was putting its official stamp on bottles of liqueur that kept them dumb and ignorant. America does hold the promise of a better life, people of all kinds clearly show the path to follow towards that promise every day. Concealing that path or saying it does not exist is wrong and unfair.

     
  • Hank Thierry posted at 7:00 am on Fri, Dec 6, 2013.

    Hank Thierry Posts: 105

    Mr. Buckner – I appreciate and respect the valid questions you have posed in your most recent posts. Your comments and questions are thorough, well-intended, and should be answered by any and all persons in policy-making positions related to public housing.

    In my opinion, the inherit benefit of public house relates to how a community defines itself. Public assistance through HUD and public housing generally addresses the need for housing among our most vulnerable populations. Communities are defined by what they do for the least of their citizens. Social services that positively impact the lives of those in need will ultimately lead to a more caring community where everyone has an opportunity to participate. That is a qualitative benefit to the community that may or may not be measured by financial charts.

    The most honest argument that I have heard coming from public housing opponents is that land on Galveston Island is simply too valuable to be used for federally-funded public housing. I fully agree with that argument. However, opponents of public housing who scream the loudest are saying just about everything else besides the valuation of the land where public housing one stood. Where Magnolia Homes once stood should be considered prime real estate. It is bordered by UTMB, the Port, the East End Historic District, and The Strand. Even the most ardent housing advocate would concede that track of land as being quite valuable for private venture rather than serve as a location for public housing.

    What I hear being argued are individuals living in Texas City who have never lived in Galveston’s public housing may find themselves harmed should Magnolia Homes and Cedar Terrace be rebuilt. This is both appalling and laughable. How can an unemployed male living in another city claim to be harmed by the GHA? Mr. Arvie, from all accounts was never a resident of Galveston public housing. The same is true of Ms. Griffin. There appears to be no record that neither her nor Mr. Arvie were actual residents of Galveston public housing. What claim to they have against GHA? What damages do they seek? What has HUD or GHA done to them?

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 6:53 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1728

    Hank, your arguments are well-considered and well-written, and I know you have a history with Galveston that I don't have. I think we just disagree.

    "The most important benefit of public housing is housing." This is undeniably true, but don't the people of Galveston already have housing? As I understand it, Galveston still has a backlog of vacancies. Do we plan to import new people when we build the housing? If so, I can't see a reason in the world to do it. If the new housing is for people already here, won't that just create more vacancies? please educate me on this.

    "Galveston benefits by its ability to provide for the working poor and its vulnerable populations." How? I can see that the housing is a boon for the people receiving it, but I don't see how Galveston as a whole benefits. Please list some ways. Tax base? Beautification? Crime reduction? Commercial development? Tourism? Quality of workforce? Per capita income?

    "This includes veterans, geriatric citizens, and persons with chronic illnesses who are no longer able to work." Yes. These people should be taken care of -- the ones already on the Island. Is that who all the units are slated for? Unfortunate Galvestonians unable to afford housing and unable to work? If yes, then I say build the housing, and I'll volunteer to help. If the housing is for Mainland (or Island) crack dealers, then no. This is another area where I don't have all the facts. If the units are slated for unfortunate Galvestonians, I have little to be concerned about.

    "Economic opportunities in terms of service-based employment are always available in Galveston." Maybe you're right, but I would have expected these positions to be inconsistently available because of the seasonal nature of tourism. And anyway, is this the type of workforce we want to attract? (Maybe this IS the workforce the city is aiming for, and if so that explains a lot!) If it were me, I'd try to attract middle-class workers to raise our tax base and bring more money and capability to the Island. Further, I thought affirmatively furthering fair housing meant providing an environment to RAISE the recipients' ability to find opportunities so they could LEAVE public housing. How does a min-wage job in the tourist or restaurant business do that?

    "Hurricanes are not tornadoes. You don’t have a 10 minute window to save your life. You usually have a day or two if not longer." Of course. But for a possibly disabled or otherwise physically challenged individual who may not have a car, which do you suppose is easier, evacuating slowly or not having to evacuate at all?

    "Historically speaking, public housing has produced some of the most educated and productive citizens in Galveston." I'm sure you know more about Galveston's history than I, so I won't argue this point. Outstanding individuals come from all walks of life. If it's true, though, I'm afraid it says more about the deficiencies of Galveston's educational and economic opportunities than it does about the benefits of public housing.

    "This is a far less population-density profile than what existed prior to Ike." Is it? No disrespect, but I wish people would quit referencing everything to Ike. I understand why people do it, but it's self-defeating. To me Galveston is BETTER than pre-Ike, and could be much better yet! But to your point, shouldn't our goal be to reduce public housing drastically? Is there something inherently beneficial about public housing that I'm just missing? If it's good for communities to have it, why aren't more of them clamoring for it?


     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 6:21 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    do not trust OGP, N. Pappous, Beeton. Justm saying. [sad] [sad][sad]

     
  • Hank Thierry posted at 3:16 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    Hank Thierry Posts: 105

    Access to grocery stores that provides fresh fruits and vegetables and other healthy food choices should be considered important for all persons who live in Galveston. The same is true for quality schools, child care, and access to health care. There are five major grocery stores in Galveston; Arlan’s Market, Kroger, Walmart, Randall’s, and Target. There are local establishments that are smaller, yet provide some semblance of healthy food choices. This includes A&M Grocery Store near 39th and Avenue L, and the Hispanic grocery mart near 38th and Broadway.

     
  • Hank Thierry posted at 3:08 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    Hank Thierry Posts: 105

    I don’t know much about population algorithms, but clearly the federally mandated one-for-one replacement of 569 housing units now only shows 141 of those units (24.8%) as new construction at Magnolia Homes and Cedar Terrace. This is a far less population-density profile than what existed prior to Ike.

     
  • Hank Thierry posted at 2:52 pm on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    Hank Thierry Posts: 105

    The most important benefit of public housing is housing.

    The community benefits because members of the community that represents the working poor are able to remain employed and maintain stable housing through federal public assistance.

    Another important benefit is the U.D. of HUD; urban development. In addition to Housing, there is the clear benefit of federal funds spent to improve Galveston’s old and failing infrastructure.

    Historically speaking, public housing has produced some of the most educated and productive citizens in Galveston. This list is far too long. Many of Galveston’s most dynamic citizens lived their early lives in public housing.

    Whether it is public housing in the form of Section 8 vouchers, new developments, or scattered sites, Galveston benefits by its ability to provide for the working poor and its vulnerable populations. This includes veterans, geriatric citizens, and persons with chronic illnesses who are no longer able to work.

    Economic opportunities in terms of service-based employment are always available in Galveston. Galveston is a tourist destination that requires a higher degree of service and hospitality jobs than other regions of Galveston County.

    A job and a place to live are essential to successful citizenship. When a person is employed and can maintain stable housing, he or she is readily available to participate as a productive citizen where they live. This would be true of any place in Galveston County and beyond.

    As far as flooding and evacuations are concerned, the folks who lived on the second floor of Magnolia Homes and Cedar Terrace seemed to survive Ike just as well as the folks who rode it out in downtown loft apartments. In the throes of a panicked hurricane evacuation, resources were clearly allocated for Gulf Breeze and Holland House, just as they were allocated for folks who chose to board buses and evacuate to other cities in Texas.

    Hurricanes are not tornadoes. You don’t have a 10 minute window to save your life. You usually have a day or two if not longer. Given how local media seem to overreact to any approaching storm, just about everyone in the population would be knowledgeable of an approaching hurricane. Evacuation from an approaching storm, even by those with limited financial resources, has been shown to occur as a matter of general operations protocol.

     
  • IHOG posted at 11:42 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    Dang it Jake.
    You spoiled all the fun.

     
  • IHOG posted at 11:33 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    HUD lawyers must be cheering.
    HUD has unlimited funding for law suits. If HUD's lawyers are lucky this suit "could go all the way" for them.
    Any suit that goes to SCOTUS is a guaranteed career builder for every lawyer on the team..

     
  • IHOG posted at 11:18 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    Jake.

    I'll add another point.
    Define which voting district will benefit.
    Would redrawing districts to eliminate gerrymandering help?
    Or would scattering, in equal numbers, PH to all voting districts be a better option.

     
  • miceal o'laochdha posted at 7:03 am on Thu, Dec 5, 2013.

    miceal o'laochdha Posts: 558

    Well Jake, I don't think we will be seeing an informative response to your questions popping up here anytime soon.

    Your point is perfectly on target and therefore, the only response can be deflection; or else nothing at all. Since the default charge of "racist" is wearing a little thin as a deflection tool, I figure there will only be silence...

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 7:24 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1728

    To those who favor public housing, please list the 5 most important benefits it brings to the citizens of Galveston.

    Please describe the algorithm you would use to determine the proper number of units, as, say, a percentage of total population. Run the calculation, and provide a table showing the proper numbers for the top 5 communities in Galveston County.

    Explain in detail how the economic opportunities of a community can be used in predicting the success of public housing. Apply your reasoning to the communities of Galveston TX, League City, TX, and Texas City, TX, and discuss why Galveston is clearly the most logical venue for public housing.

    Show, using the new FEMA flood maps, why Galveston in particular is a great place for public housing. In the outside chance that Galveston were to experience a hurricane or tropical storm, show how a citizen without personal transportation could easily and reliably leave the Island.

    List the 5 closest grocery stores to Galveston's proposed public housing sites, and describe the public transit routes serving each.

    Discuss the ways public housing will make Galveston a safer and more beautiful place to live, and help to promote tourism.

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:53 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    It is a great day for me also. I can not wait for the ground breaking fo PH. People do not want to Rent from these slumb lords . That what this mess is all about . If you are fighting for RENTERS tough. JUST SAYING. [smile][wink][wink]

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:46 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    [sad] I had my fill when N. Pappous tried to get Central Scool close and give it to KIPP.[sad][sad][sad]

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:43 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    As a Black person, I have yet to here any blacks say that they ask OGP to look for a place where (PH) could be built, certain not on Mainland. Just let me know who ask OGP .They don't want PH , show me a crook and I point to OGP and Beeton, Pappous and Mayor . Just saying [sad]

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:34 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    Yes the city took all that money, and then the elete public said that PH would not be built on island. This grouip got Rosen to say he would stop PH from ever being back . Please tell me why everyone stsrted really careing about PH resident.but that they really didn't wants the BLACK/BROWN and POOR WHITES to stay here. Some of the OGP are not even from here.

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:27 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    lets break ground for PH next to N. Pappous or E. Beeton and buy out their neigbor. How can Beeton tell anyone what to do when she could not even get the MAYOR-PROTEM . JUST SAYING>

     
  • mytoby3113 posted at 5:20 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    mytoby3113 Posts: 422

    It sounds like they work with this group that wants to stop PH on the island period. I never heard of these three people. I can get people that says they are fine with PH being built where they were.

     
  • confusedemmy posted at 4:09 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    confusedemmy Posts: 256

    I would figure that they are on vouchers. Once the housing is built, the number of vouchers will be reduced by the number of people/units; they would be driven to move into one of the mixed income developments.

     
  • IHOG posted at 2:37 pm on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    A close look at where HUD builds low income housing could explain why they are so set on putting PH where local citizens think is wrong.
    HUD slums are where progressive voters are concentrated. Gerrymandered voting districts dedicated to progressive politicians. Progressive politicians believe the poor are their private property. Creating more poor to be warehoused in HUD projects increases their political success.
    Think not?
    Select any HUD project and check who's voting district it was gerrymandered for.
    Do you think S.J. Lee just happened to have a totally low income district.

     
  • IHOG posted at 11:02 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    IHOG Posts: 2486

    LBJ's Great Society has spent $13 trillion on the war against poverty. Poverty continued to increase but is much more valuable to progressives. Most of the money was spent concentrating poverty in Gerrymandered Progressive voting districts.

     
  • Don233 posted at 10:21 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Don233 Posts: 340

    Let's break ground on a public housing project right next to Lyda Ann Thomas' home on 37th. I'm sure she would welcome her new neighbors with welcome arms. Put one up In her back yard. There's room.

     
  • bbrc115 posted at 9:54 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    bbrc115 Posts: 22

    It will be interesting to see the various contortions HUD will have to go through to explain it's positions in the Westchester and Thompson cases vs. what they are demanding in Galveston's case. It is hypocrisy at the highest level, and nothing more that naked political strong arming.

    Gotta love the GLO. They threaten and demand a plan sculpted and crafted a certain way, and then when they're called on it in federal court their excuse is that GHA and City Council have approved it and that the city and GHA have said it AFFH.

    GLO:"What? It's not our fault that they did exactly what we told them to do under the threat of us taking away hundreds of millions of dollars from them."

     
  • Hank Thierry posted at 9:51 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Hank Thierry Posts: 105

    Why would Taylor, Arvie, and Griffin fear the prospect of moving to public housing in Galveston if they currently reside in Texas City?

     
  • Donnie Kelemen posted at 9:06 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Donnie Kelemen Posts: 25

    The best news I've heard in a long time! Common sense might actually be used to decide where the best place build will be. Certainly not here where the costs per unit are tenfold of what mainland costs would be.

     
  • npappous posted at 8:54 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    npappous Posts: 350

    Have a look at the last city council agenda.... what was approved?

     
  • Matt Coulson posted at 8:01 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Matt Coulson Posts: 129

    What was the trigger that allowed this suit to move forward? We have been waiting for this for a long time.

     
  • miceal o'laochdha posted at 7:58 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    miceal o'laochdha Posts: 558

    Well that was said with crystal clarity, Norman. We could use more of that.

     
  • Don233 posted at 7:28 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Don233 Posts: 340

    The same thing was said about civil rights. I say forward, march. We shall overcome!

     
  • Island Runner posted at 7:13 am on Wed, Dec 4, 2013.

    Island Runner Posts: 401

    Waste of time and money. Enough said.

     
  • darkngray posted at 8:42 pm on Tue, Dec 3, 2013.

    darkngray Posts: 2

    [smile] Could not be more pleased. From the words of the story, there is NO WAY anyone can scream racism. Open Government Project seems to be looking out for all of Galveston and for that they should be applauded and thanked.

     
  • npappous posted at 7:49 pm on Tue, Dec 3, 2013.

    npappous Posts: 350

    “What I can say now is that the Galveston Housing Authority’s plan — which was voted on and approved by the Galveston City Council — for the reconstruction of public housing destroyed by Hurricane Ike meets all the HUD requirements for affirmatively furthering fair housing,” said land office spokesman Jim Suydam.


    LIAR !!!!!!!

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 6:56 pm on Tue, Dec 3, 2013.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1728

    Had to happen.

     
  • Don233 posted at 6:42 pm on Tue, Dec 3, 2013.

    Don233 Posts: 340

    It's a great day for Galvestonians. God Bless The Galveston Open Government Project. They are about the only ones listening to the citizens of Galveston. We don't want public housing. Fire every city council member that voted in favor. One & Done Rosen knows he's toast. The others on council who voted for public housing should resign in shame for not doing the will of the people. It started with Lyda Ann Thomas' betrayal of us. Funny the Kempners could have paid to build some apts. for those that still wanted free housing here. That didn't happen.

     
  • npappous posted at 6:29 pm on Tue, Dec 3, 2013.

    npappous Posts: 350

    :)