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Statue honors gender, sexual minorities - The Galveston County Daily News : Local News

December 20, 2014

Statue honors gender, sexual minorities

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60 comments:

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  • vic krc posted at 3:01 pm on Tue, Jul 29, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    sverie1, thank you for your response.

    I asked because of the "Pax Christi" on your avatar. - "The Peace of Christ"

    So I had to ask what that meant to you.

    "Not that it matters what any of us think of Christ..."

    Now I know.

    Luke 23:34

     
  • sverige1 posted at 2:27 pm on Tue, Jul 29, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Hey carlosrponce

    Hope ur not up in Houston right now. The rain is pounding with hundreds of lightening strikes, ready to strike all prosletyizing Christians! LMAO

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 2:02 pm on Tue, Jul 29, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2787

    WARNING! All you have written is being recorded, not just here on the Galveston News servers but also in Heaven. So sad.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 1:57 pm on Tue, Jul 29, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    You Are Holy (Prince of Peace) - from NewSong:

    "You are holy, you are holy. You are mighty, you are mighty. You are worthy, you are worthy, worthy of praise. I will follow, I will follow. I will listen, I will listen. I will love you, I will love you, all of my days!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsYyuK1w3q0

    WHOOP WHOOP!!

     
  • Jbgood posted at 1:16 pm on Tue, Jul 29, 2014.

    Jbgood Posts: 2002

    Let your glory fill this house;
    Let your praises fill our mouths;
    Let each vessel offer up to you,...
    the sacrifice of praiseeeee.
    -
    You alone are hoolyyy;
    You alone are worthyyyyy;
    You deserve the Gloryyy.
    -
    Jesus you are Lorddddddd ( then you take for another turn see. ) 2x
    -
    I did that because I know Satan and his people don't appreciate it! I love it. I love it! Did I say I love it? [smile]

     
  • sverige1 posted at 10:11 am on Tue, Jul 29, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Response to vic krc posted at 5:31 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014:

    Not that it matters what any of us think of Christ, but I'll give the best answer I can think of: Jesus is the incarnation of God's love in human flesh. He/She is everywhere, and an embodiment of every human being on Earth.

    I also believe that it's OK to NOT believe in Jesus Christ. I acknowledge that to some folks their belief in Jesus' existence can be "fluid". More people are drawn to Him/Her when times are bad or when they "need" something. Whether we specifically believe in Him/Her as an individual or an embodiment of, let's say 3 persons....or if He/She is a compilation of many spirits and is called something like "Buddah" or "Allah"...then, that's an individual's prerogative to believe as such.

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 10:33 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Yep.

     
  • gecroix posted at 8:28 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    You pay your own 14 bucks, you make your own choices.

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 7:49 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    It's a habit I got into years ago when it mattered more because of my job at the time. And even though my views are seldom controversial, I'd rather be somewhat anonymous. Just a minor layer of personal security.

    I certainly don't care whether other members use their real names or not.

     
  • vic krc posted at 5:31 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    OK, I guess this thread is getting too long and complicated.

    At 3:40 PM I asked you:

    What do you say about Christ?

    Is He the Son of God, or a philosopher, some of whose teachings you happen to admire?

    Like I said, no pressure and no cricket emoticons from me.

    I would just like to know where you are coming from.

    If you don't want to answer, that will be the end of it from me. Just let me know, please.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 5:16 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    OK, I need reading comprehension 101 refresher, vic krc....What's the direct question needing to be answered? I'll do my best.

     
  • vic krc posted at 4:52 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    OK, I suppose that does clear things up somewhat.

    However, I did take the time and trouble to answer a personal hypothetical that you pressed me to answer, cricket emoticons and all.

    If you do not want to answer my direct question, just say you do not want to answer it, but do not ignore it.

    Yes, St. Martin de Porres was a great guy, as are all the canonized saints, and all of the uncanonized ones.

    They would not despise sinners, they would be kind to all, and they would not presume God's judgment, but they just might say some things that would irritate or enrage some folks.

     
  • gecroix posted at 4:22 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    Of course not?

     
  • sverige1 posted at 4:17 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Response to vic krc posted at 3:40 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014:

    "Where am I coming from"? and I dare say "the gods"? It's called being cognizant of the belief system of others. There are some folks who believe in the Trinity, others who believe in only one spirit, and those who honor many gods. Then, some who honor no god.

    Then, there's Carlos' reference to some individuals who get their spirituality and/or inspiration from a pink dolphin. Good for them if it helps solidify their creative juices and centers them as a person. I go for statues too. I remember watching Spanish TV years ago with this juvenile soap called "Carrusel". The little boy had a San Martin de Porres statue that he prayed to very often. San Martin was a vegetarian, a barber, healer, gave to the poor and sick. A great guy!

     
  • vic krc posted at 3:40 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    sverige1, your last sentence intrigues me.

    Your public avatar says "Pax Christi", so I am more than a little confused by the reference to "the gods", albeit in lower caps.

    What do you say about Christ?

    I really want to know, as I now have no idea where you are coming from.

    Is He the Son of God, or just a philosopher, some of whose teachings you happen to admire?

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 3:37 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2787

    As they said in my day "That's as clear as mud."[unsure]

     
  • sverige1 posted at 2:51 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Well, carlos:

    The article here highlights an artist who helps us become cognizant of the transgender and "questioning" individuals' gender sexuality.

    I don't think the article addresses to much regarding what one is "attracted" to. In other words, one can be a transgender, yet not be a homosexual. Now, my head is spinning in trying to figure this out, but here is what I think it is:

    A young man, let's say he's 19. He was born a male and throughout high school, he was always attracted to females. However, his being male currently does not coincide with his feelings of femininity. He, instead, wants to dress as a female and perhaps one day hopes to be a mother. He goes through sex reassignment process. He's not homosexual because he's originally a boy attracted to women.

    When he transforms into a female, he will still be attracted to other females. BUT...maybe not...because as many folks don't know - sexuality can be a fluid phenomenon. That is, if one is attracted to women from let's say 13-21 years of age, this boy/man, when he is older might be attracted to men. So, at this point, we may be talking about bisexuality, or eventual homosexuality. Either way....you nor I are in any position to "forgive" this person for alleged "sin" or "blasphemy". Don't you think he/she has enough to deal with wrestling with this issue without yours or my judgment? And, I doubt if he/she will ask us for our forgiveness. A lot of folks these days aren't interested in what our opinion of their lives are. That's between them and God (the gods).

     
  • vic krc posted at 2:30 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    sverige1, I bet your older relatives really enjoyed the h--l out of your company too!

    Nothing like a sulking, enlightened teenager at a family gathering to really spice things up.

    "OTempora o Mores" , a great old Roman named Cicero wrote those words over two thousand years ago. Roughly, it means "Oh the times, Oh the customs".

    You need people who go against the tide.

    Our system of self-government requires an opposition so that neither party gets the upper hand. Otherwise, a totalitarian state will develop as our system of self-government comes crashing down.

    So, be thankful for what you call "stultifying conservatives".

    A true Texan drinks Shiner Bock, not that Colorado horse p--s!

    [smile]

     
  • sverige1 posted at 12:58 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Well, I had to spend most of my youth dodge-balling around the stogie filled reunion hall rooms, listening to my uncles, great uncles and bitter aunts' rants and raves about how the "hippies" ruined everything.

    My folks were somewhat part of that "hippy" phase and I'll take the enlightened Liberal view over the stultifying conservative view anytime. That includes meeting up with what are likely carbon copies of the folks I've met in my days past. I'll "pass" on an organized meeting of such forum users here. But, if I run into one by chance, then I'm ready to talk and share a beer. Coors Light....I like to see the blue mountain show its COLDEST level :)

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 12:47 pm on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    If you mean do I use my real name on an open internet forum, of course not. If you mean would I be willing to meet you in person and tell you my real name, and tell you my screen name so you could make the connection, sure.

    And I would definitely be me. [beam]

     
  • gecroix posted at 11:05 am on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    If it was, would you really be you?

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 10:47 am on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    "I don't care..." says gecroix. The best philosophy when dealing with topics of small importance! These words are like armor.

    "I'd love to see face put to mouth" Yes! A party for GDN forum users would be dynamite! I'd love to meet gecroix, vic, sverige, carlos, mytoby, et al... I wonder if it could be arranged.

     
  • gecroix posted at 10:15 am on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    My respect for myself and what I like exceeds my respect for art that someone else likes. I'm sure from their standpoint, the opposite is true. It doesn't stop either of us from wondering why the other doesn't do or think things differently
    All you characters hiding behind your phony internet personnas can feel free to attack that statement.
    I don't care...
    Call me personally to do so if ya want...I'M in the phone book...or, drop by for a cold Diet Coke...I'd love to see face put to mouth....nothing like a spirited discussion....[beam][beam][beam][beam][beam]

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 8:05 am on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2787

    "Cum dilectione hominum et odio vitiorum" - St. Augustine 211
    which translates as "With love for mankind and hatred of sins."
    "Hate the sin and not the sinner" -Mohandas Gandhi 1929
    Most Americans use the phrase, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."
    Christians do not condemn homosexuals but the Bible is clear on homosexual acts, these are considered sin. But ALL sin except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is forgivable. Peace be with you.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 7:23 am on Mon, Jul 28, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Response to Jake Buckner posted at 10:52 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014:

    You know, Jake...with your insights that you regularly express here, I'd be honored if you ever were my neighbor or co-worker. You have a world view that is healthy, encompassing, yet practical.

    As far as art is concerned, you told it like it is. Most artists I've spoken to would agree with all tenets of your post!

     
  • vic krc posted at 11:12 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    OK, Jake, whatever you say. Good night. It is well past my bedtime.
    Sweet dreams.

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 10:52 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Sir or madam, if your last statement is true, then you know there is PLENTY of art honoring gender and sexual preference -- it is a common theme. And you might also know that art often comes from the heart of the artist, and is often not what the most of the rest of us appreciate. Sure, some art is commissioned, but much is created for the joy of creating, or for expressing the artist's views in way that best suits the artist's talents.

    Your main thrust seems to be "Why did the artist 'waste' his art by creating something I don't like." It's because the artist spoke from HIS heart, not yours. He created his sculpture to make himself and other people happy.

    You say, "Why not make a statue representing this," or "Why not make one representing that?" It's possible to look at any work of art and say that. The fact that you said it about one that possibly represents LGBT values led to my comment about homophobia. That, and the fact that you implied some moral judgments about the same subject.

    I stick to my assertion that you know little about art, even though you took some classes and can list a few names.
    [cool]

     
  • vic krc posted at 10:22 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Jake, me having little respect for the value of art, that really hurt.

    I suppose you will just have to take my word for it, but I love art. Especially the visual and aural arts.

    I took six hours in elective courses in art history in college which started me on my journey of reading about art and artists.

    Counting what I have in my home and the images I have downloaded as wallpaper for my PC, I have copies and images of works by: Manet, Monet, Da Vinci, Delacroix, Van Gogh, Breugel, Rubens, Vermeer, Picasso, Pissaro, Cezanne, plus others I cannot think of at this time.

    As far as music is concerned, I had a music instructor in high school that got me interested in the really goldie - oldies.

    Since that time I have read about composers and collected music in 78's, 33 1/3 and CD's by Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn, Vivaldi, the Bachs, esp. JS, Telemann, Handel, the Correllis, the Bendas, Myslivacek, Pichl, Mehdelssohn, Bruckner, Schuman, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Dvorak, Smetana, Suk...and many more. I could probably type the names of composers that I am familiar with for another 30 minutes or so.

    I know I do not have them in their proper chronological periods, I am typing off the top of my head.

    I occasionally troll through the art galleries in downtown Galveston, but I have as yet found anything I want to spend my money on.

    As far as homophobic is concerned, that is hogwash.

    I do not fear nor hate homosexuals or lesbians.

    In fact a couple of the best conversations that I have had about music have been with gay men. I liked them for their knowledge and interest in the subject and I don't think that they were as hung-up on the subject of their sexuality as you appear to be or as you make me out to be.

    I may even know more about art than you do.[smile]

     
  • vic krc posted at 7:58 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    sverige1, I didn't say anything was wrong about reading the article, I just disagreed with the project and its purpose.

    I gave my reasons and they are out there in cyberspace, for the nonce.

    As far as your problem with the 55+ set, I can tell you that I used to be a whole lot like you.

    Being mugged by reality changes you. You will change, I guarantee.

    I don't know who said that if you are not a liberal when you are young, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative when you are old, you have no brains, but he had a point.

    While I am writing this, I see via email that Jake doesn't want to take the time to engage even one of my points. He is content to call me names such as 'homophobic' and my remarks as 'fatuous'. So, take the easy way out, Jake.

    Oh well, sverige1, I was somewhat impressed by most of your last post.

    I will let the other old guys defend themselves.

    I'm gonna watch 'Poirot' on TV, have a couple of beers, a good cigar, and go to bed.

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 7:45 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Vic, you're just trolling me, right? You can't seriously think you've made any arguments worth rebutting -- it would be hard to even decide where to start. It would be fairly easy to pick apart a few of the fatuous statements you made during the course of your overblown diatribe, but you've probably already figured out that I won't go to the trouble of doing that.

    To give you the benefit of the doubt, I did go back and wade through the whole mess you wrote, and to me it just shows you have little respect for the value of art, probably not a lot of real knowledge of it, and that you are quite possibly homophobic.

    That's okay! I'm sure you fit in fine with the company you choose to keep. And that's good -- there is plenty of room for all types in a free country, and especially on the Island.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 7:39 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Anyone who calls himself/herself a "Christian" but condemns and fails to appreciate the happiness of a transgender, etc. is a "fake" Christian.

    Lots of fake Christians reading the paper these days. It is NOT OK to "trash" people who have found happiness. Especially if their happiness does not infringe upon yours.

    ROMANS 12:10 -

    "Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor."

    Do not show dishonor by "trashing" an artist who adds beauty to this world.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 7:13 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Response to vic krc posted at 2:19 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014:

    Well, vic krc -
    I don't think it's so much to honor sexual reassignment. As I mentioned previously, I personally have a difficult time feeling the need to support someone female wanting somehow to become male and vice versa.

    What I do support is the peace of mind and the good mental health that somehow results when one who has been sexually reassigned tells us that he/she is now a happy person. Again, I ask: Why should we condemn or be against it if the individual has spent his/her own $, and very likely cultivated the ultimate support of his/her family?

    What's wrong with reading an article about an artist who celebrates this with like-minded people and being happy for them? As for "honoring unsung heroes" as opposed to people who simply changed their sex....well, I concur with you on that. I feel an accomplishment of honoring and fighting for our country deems more recognition than someone who put himself/herself under the knife. I don't think that's the point here, however.

    But, this article was more about us recognizing and perhaps celebrating with people who spent years struggling with their identity. I have a hard time sometimes with the 55 plus generation. Why is it so important to keep the same rigid rules and values of yesteryear? I imagine that 50 years ago, divorce and plastic surgery were "verboten" concepts. Today, they are both readily accepted. So too will be sexual reassignment, same sex marriage, etc. And, contrary to JBG...most of us don't think of it as "devil's work". That's a laugh and a half. LMAO

     
  • vic krc posted at 6:01 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Jake, OK, I get it.

    But why did you say I said what I didn't say? Please read that carefully again and let me know because you have got to know I didn't say or even imply that.

    You think its OK, I don't think its OK.

    I gave reasons for my opinions, you didn't - other than saying it was a done deal and that is that. Fine and dandy.

    This forum is all about free speech and I try to lard my opinions with arguments that can be challenged by other arguments, if anyone wants to take the time or trouble to do so.

    Usually, all I get are vague generalizations and the tedious repetition of irrelevant words and slogans.

    As far as your statement about building my own monument. OK. I will do that the next time you run for congress after expressing your opinion about some legislation you disagree with.

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 5:33 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Please carefully re-read the last sentence of the very post I responded to, and consider the context in which it was written.

     
  • vic krc posted at 5:15 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Jake, I assume you read my posts, so I do not know where you got the idea that I said that anyone said that it was wrong to memorialize charity or actions that unite rather than divide us.

    My objection was to what the artist chose as a theme and I gave my reasons for my thinking so.

    I also gave my reasons for objecting to the tone of sverige1's initial post on the subject.

    Don't put words into my mouth.

    You are perfectly free to believe there is nothing wrong with the theme of the monument. However, I gave many specific reasons for why I believe the contrary is true.

    If you would comment on some of the points I raised in my posts rather than saying I said what I didn't say, it would be welcome.

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 4:46 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Vic, did somebody, somewhere in this thread, say it was wrong to honor charitable actions, or actions that unite rather than divide us? Maybe someone did, but I didn't see it.

    My view: There's nothing wrong with it; it's a good idea. Why don't you get some sandstone and sculpt one, or hire one done. The artist in this article decided to celebrate something else, and the GDN deemed it newsworthy, and so here it is. There's nothing wrong with that, either.

     
  • Jbgood posted at 3:09 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    Jbgood Posts: 2002

    Vic ! Why celebrate and honor division? I'll tell you why some do. It is because it is the DEVIL's Math. It is used in his process of subtracting by DIVISION! Lyndon Johnson proclaimed in one of his final speeches:
    -
    "And in these times as in times before, it is true that a house divided against itself by the spirit of faction, of party, of region, of religion, of race, is a house that cannot stand."
    -
    "There is division in the American house now. There is divisiveness among us all tonight. And holding the trust that is mine, as President of all the people, I cannot disregard the peril to the progress of the American people and the hope and the prospect of peace for all peoples."
    -
    "So, I would ask all Americans, whatever their personal interests or concern, to guard against divisiveness and all its ugly consequences." ....LBJ 3/31/68
    -

    Truth be told we are probably more divided now than back in LBJ's day, and this country was really divided back then. One thing to LBJ's credit is, at least he was concerned about it.

     
  • vic krc posted at 2:19 pm on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Further response to sverige1:

    "Variety is the spice of life". OK, as long as you approve of the variety. If you don't approve a variety of opinions, you challenge their mentality or proclaim their lack of enlightenment.

    Not everything that we feel good about is morally right. People don't rape, murder, or commit adultery because it makes them feel bad, for sure.

    Why assume sexual reengineering is moral simply because it makes someone feel good? I can't answer that, but charity towards others always is right. The individual that made the choice will have to account for it, not me.

    I would be concerned for a soul that feels good about itself. It is either deluded or has no conscience. We should have self-respect but also be aware that just because it feels good or right then we should do it is not a good test for morality.

    As, gecroix posted, why celebrate and honor division? Again, I fail to see what basis there is for honoring sexual orientation or sexual choice? Why be so exclusive?

    Wouldn't a monument honoring the unsung heroes that perform unseen and therefore unrecognized acts of charity be more inclusive and inspiring? I am talking about anything from a neighbor who may pick up some trash that may have blown into your yard to anyone who may have died while trying to save another, but no human being knows it.

    A monument helps unite us is more in keeping with malice towards none and charity towards all. It may even inspire others to be more charitable towards sexual minorities while still keeping their own moral standards intact.

    What is wrong with that?

     
  • vic krc posted at 11:58 am on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    OK, I will answer your hypothetical.

    Since my daughter is "twenty something" and can "afford it", I would advise her to understand that this is a step that she will have to live with for the rest of her life. I would still love her even though I would not agree with her decision. I certainly would not celebrate it, but neither would I hate her for it. It is her gift of life to live and she is responsible for her choices.

    OK?

    Gee, I sure hope I pass Your Grace's "enlightenment" test.

    Now answer my question:

    Why do you consider a public monument to "celebrate" and "honor" "sexual minorities" a more worthwhile endeavor than a monument to "celebrate" and "honor" all of the unseen acts of charity in this world?

    Your avatar includes the words "Pax Christi". My high school Latin tells me that translates into the "Peace of Christ" or "Christ's Peace".

    Wasn't Jesus the Christ way more concerned with what we do for one another and not what we do for ourselves?

    Didn't He say "Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives to you do I give to you." (John 14:27)

    It sounds to me as if you want to put all of your faith in peace in this world and the church of what's-happening-now.

    He was directly opposed to "Get with it and get used to it". That is what got Him crucified.

    All of us will have to ultimately answer for our actions in this world. Why shouldn't we erect monuments to celebrate charity to others; why celebrate the "glory" of individual choice

    The only individual choice that Jesus was concerned with was whether or not you were for Him or against Him.

    Much of the world worships at the altar of individual choice without thinking through the responsibilities our gift of free will imposes on us.

    Posters on this forum are certainly free to disagree with your opinions about sexual morality and the current state of our society. That does not make them any more "unenlightened" than you are, but you will never see that in your self-absorbed sense of self-righteousness - the same attitude you condemn others for having.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 9:58 am on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Response to DottyOA posted at 11:19 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014:

    Hey Doty...where have you been? Glad to see you've still got the chutzpah to express yourself from time to time. I was starting to worry about ya. I'm worried you post more "off" than "on" here...keep writing more to keep me entertained [beam].

    As for you question regarding my self-assignment of director of tolerance...

    Yes, I need to be of such with the overwhelming judgment and disapproval of the many non-enlightened posters here. You need more folks around you like me to help you feel better about society in general. As I mentioned before: crimes like murder, theft, and infidelity shouldn't be "celebrated". Another person's well-being through realizing who he/she is should be "celebrated". Welcome to the 21st century.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 9:52 am on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    I meant to say we all SHOULDN'T like murder, rape, running around on committed relationships...and so on,,,

     
  • sverige1 posted at 9:51 am on Sun, Jul 27, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Response to Jake Buckner posted at 7:50 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014:

    You're so right. The beauty of the island is it's general acceptance of everything different. As the saying goes, "Variety is the spice of life".

    As for vic ric - Yes, I think philosophy and deep thinking has its place and all of us are for the better if we have/had the opportunity to broaden our horizons other than listen to Uncle Bob drone on about how this country is 'going to hell in a handbasket". Then again, the direct approach is appropriate in some occasions. So, now I say to you, "Yes, get with it and get used to it". I'll say that to you until the cows come home. Life's too short to worry about another person's decision to be who he/she (or a combination of) wants to be. If he/she is a loving person who cares about the world, nature, people around....then none of the rest of us should be applauded for trying to bring these people down and at the same time say, "I'm tired of people trying to make me accept something I don't like."

    We all should like murder, rape, running around on committed relationships. We should accept and believe in different people who have gone through process of gender reassignment. That is no crime. Condescending and non-philosophical enough?

    You still haven't answered my question about what would you do and say if your child came up to you and said he/she was going to change gender. What say you? [crickets]

     
  • gecroix posted at 12:08 pm on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    "We don't dare voice our disapproval of certain politically approved behaviors even though we harbor no ill will to the individuals involved.'

    Well, some don't....
    Personally, I'm long past tired of people telling me I have to just accept what they believe, which, of course, means that THEY do not accept what I believe, and don't mind revealing the displeasure.
    if anyone doesn't like it...I don't care...
    This country didn't get to be the greatest country in the world by building monuments to it's differences. It got that way by joining those differences to a common cause and pulling together as a nation.
    The lack of this now, the PC insanity on 'celebrating diversity', is one reason the nation is on decline. The usual suspects simply do not 'get' the difference between using the different talents and backgrounds of individuals as part of a team to accomplish a common goal, and with ignoring the commonality in favor of the individual. I don't CARE if you wear panties or BVD's under that dress or pants or who you like to kiss because I DON'T need to know it, and it has no bearing on the common good of the nation, a little thing that good citizenship should place as a priority.
    Don't ask, don't tell?
    Why not everybody just shut up about themselves, and get down to business.

     
  • vic krc posted at 10:01 am on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    We can act charitably to all, but we can still make moral judgments about individual behaviors.

    In my opinion, the problem with the left now days is that they want to police your thoughts as well as your actions.

    We don't dare voice our disapproval of certain politically approved behaviors even though we harbor no ill will to the individuals involved.

     
  • vic krc posted at 9:54 am on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Jake Buckner, the difference between judging and being judgmental is like the difference between lightning and lightning bugs. [smile]

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 12:04 am on Sat, Jul 26, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Yes, I wondered why the GDN wasn't more straightforward about that. It's no secret that the Island is more welcoming to lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, and transgendered citizens than many places are, so I naturally assumed that's what they meant. If it's something different, then I don't know what it could be.

    To me, that welcoming nature is one of the island's best features, almost as good as the beach and the bay. It means that the place is relaxed and non-judgmental, and I can FEEL that attitude all around me. It feels GREAT!

    Of course I can still be judgmental if I want to. That's allowed too.

     
  • DottyOA posted at 11:19 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    DottyOA Posts: 208

    sverige1... Since when did you become the director of human tolerance in this county's society and decide it was behind the times because they may not agree with the way you think? Do you think your way of thinking is it? Sorry, Charlie, but everyone is entitled to the way they want to think whether it agrees with you or not. [beam]

     
  • gecroix posted at 11:03 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    Of course, it would be helpful to be told what the 'gender and sexual minorities' being honored are...

     
  • Jake Buckner posted at 7:50 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    Jake Buckner Posts: 1775

    Lots of self-righteousness on display here.

    The good news is that every person posting on this forum would accept the people celebrated by Mr. Orangias's art into their church, their neighborhood, or their place of business. It may not sound like they would, but they would.

     
  • vic krc posted at 7:03 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    My only question to the artist is why degrade art for petty, parochial, and political purposes? Don't you think that there are grander themes to express artistically? I suggested one such theme as honoring unseen acts of charity. How about honoring the struggles that the physically and mentally handicapped and their caregivers undergo?

    Instead we have a theme that is an essentially egocentric, narcissistic one, that few would find uplifting.

    I personally do not care what decisions anybody makes about their sex, but "celebrating" and "honoring" these decisions seems to me to be more than a little silly and pedestrian. What good do those decisions do for anybody else?

    My only problem with your post was the condescending attitude you adopted along with the mushy and dangerous argument you used to justify your position. No self respecting philosopher would use an argument such as "Get with it, and get used to it".

     
  • sverige1 posted at 6:04 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    well, vic krc -

    Maybe this artist will answer your 3 "why" questions and your one "how" question. I do surmise you directed the questions to the artist/creator of the statue. And yes, I do think it is bigoted, but even worse, a shame on humanity that some people cannot simply place their mindsets into something out of their ordinary "box".

    I would venture to say that almost every poster on this thread is fairly new to the concept of things like "gender reassignment" or "gender questioning" and so forth. I personally am not close to anyone who has or is transforming into a different sex. Quite honestly, it is hard to wrap my head around the notion that someone wants to be a boy (if she's a girl) and vice versa. But, the point I'm making is that in this day and age it is more and more beginning to be celebrated.

    It's being celebrated that parents no longer have to tell their boy to stop "playing with dolls" or to tell him to quit picking pink for colors or to stop trying on nail polish or eyeliner. Or that a girl can choose to wear suits, be a lineperson for the county. Or transform into a man if she feels that is a better "fit". Who are we to say? It's their life. Question: If your 20 something daughter came up to you and said she's starting gender reassignment (and she can afford it), what would you do? In answering that question, remember that some of these folks have their mind set on it. You and I can't change their minds.

     
  • carlosrponce posted at 4:56 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    carlosrponce Posts: 2787

    I like going to church and seeing a statue of the Holy family, Mary, Joseph and Jesus. Although not exactly a traditional family since Joseph was not Jesus' biological father, it is very moving and reminds us of the life God meant for us, a mother and father raising their child to love and honor God. So some think a pink dolphin more closely resembles their own lives. I hope they don't drown.[beam]

     
  • vic krc posted at 2:42 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Well severige1 I am sure we are all impressed with how enlightened you are.

    For a self-proclaimed philosopher, you share an attitude and style of "argumentation" that "lovers of wisdom" would find wanting.

    Just because something is new, current, or trendy does not logically entail that it is good, moral, or socially beneficial. It may or may not be, but there has to be argument to support it, not merely that "everybody" believes it. In point of fact, everybody may not believe it but they are cowed into silence for fear of being branded as a bigot or condescended to by folks of your ilk. That tactic seems to be the favorite line of "argument" in use today.

    You said: ..."in short, get out of the 19th or 20th centuries and enter our NEW ERA (caps mine). There is no going back, no matter how hard you try.".

    Wow, that could have come out of "Brave New World" or "1984". That statement is a summary of the "philosophy" of all totalitarians throughout history and those to come.

    My problems with the article and the event itself are:

    Why dance around with naming those who you are honoring? Define your terms, otherwise you open yourself up to misunderstanding. Are we just supposed to infer who you mean?

    Why does there have to be monuments "honoring" whatever gender and sexual minorities you have in mind. I cannot think of any monuments honoring gender and sexual majorities, per se.

    Why should sexual and gender status in any way and for anybody require honoring, for heavens sake!

    How about a monument to something worth honoring, for instance perhaps to honor all the unseen heroic and not-so-heroic works of charity done by human beings in this world.

     
  • sverige1 posted at 12:50 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    sverige1 Posts: 3718

    Mr. Orangias, I'm sure you're a very talented and genuine individual worth getting to know.

    Now, let's turn to the not-so positive side of this. I sometimes think the GCDN approves and publishes stories like this from time to time to see how much our county is progressing in comparison to the rest of the state/nation. I imagine that being journalists they have a keen sense of human qualities.

    So, gleaning the negative comments regarding this, it can be assumed that our county's mentality has not kept up with the nation. Either that, or the bulk of the readers who comment are still living with the notion that "boys will be boys" and "girls should be girls". Well, it's not that way anymore. Folks, broaden your horizons. Think of this one simple concept in this article: the concept of ART. Art can and should delve into all facets of the human existence. I suggest some of you take a philosophy class or an art/art appreciation class. You will feel differently about many things including gender identification, sexuality, etc. In short, get out of the 19th and 20th centuries and enter our new era. There's no going back, no matter how hard you wish it.

     
  • rukidden posted at 12:35 pm on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    rukidden Posts: 97

    What a Crock[rolleyes]

     
  • vic krc posted at 11:09 am on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    vic krc Posts: 175

    Don't forget shoe fetishists. Talk about folks who REALLY live in the closet!

    This story should really be a satire. In earlier times I would expect to see stories like this in Mad Magazine, but now such things make front page news. Really?

     
  • MM posted at 10:22 am on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    MM Posts: 14

    Well, since there are more women than men, I gather the "gender minority" this statue represents must be the male. As for "sexual minorities," I am not sure I can list out all of them, but I would gather that polygamists would be one such minority. Never thought I'd live to see a statue honoring male polygamists!

     
  • Jbgood posted at 10:18 am on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    Jbgood Posts: 2002

    You are right gecroix! I get so &*^%* TIRED OF IT TOO! We have been deceived to the point where the more opportunities we can scrape together concerning how different we are, or can be, the better that is for us all! That is practicing the DEVIL'S MATH,.... which is subtraction, by division! ( Satan loves that like a tick loves being on a dog ).
    -
    Who was that who said a house, or city divided shall not stand? No, it was not JBG,...but some very important individual did, in fact say that. I'm not discounting anybody here, but I see division and stupidity all in my family! Many of them act like a horde of FOOLS without a cause, while worshiping money! ( Satan is behind that and there should be no doubt about it, to anyone who knows his modus operandi. )
    -
    So if I seem to be in a rage early this morning, I apologize in advance.

     
  • gecroix posted at 9:28 am on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    gecroix Posts: 3280

    The nation certainly needs more reminders of our differences instead of our commonalities.


     
  • Etheridge posted at 6:44 am on Fri, Jul 25, 2014.

    Etheridge Posts: 70

    This is front page, above-the-fold news?